Author Topic: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)  (Read 2104 times)

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Offline NLS

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Similar discussions were made in the past, but this topic really needs an update or better a reality check.


I posted a similar post over in PD, but after few days and 81 views, nobody bothered to comment. Maybe here I will be more lucky. Maybe.


Disclaimer: I haven't yet processed the latest trurip superDAT released here. One reason is that I am not sure of the "freshness" of the superDAT and how "official" is considered - taking into consideration that official trurip site seems to be non updated for... years. Whatever I talk about for trurip, is based on talk (and data supplied) by ripper006 that seems to be in the core team of trurip.


Note, this talks only about "ISO" parts of the projects.


So...


I have a partial collection of TOSEC ISO (along with complete non-ISO and PIX) and trurip, mainly because of space reasons.
For the same reasons, I am looking into "leaning towards" a SINGLE group.
The best thing would be COOPERATION, but I won't open this again, as the two groups seems to not be able to even say "good morning" to each other using the same language. I will only repeat I find this STUPID. (it's not world fame, it's not money, so they should just cooperate, as simple as that)


Based on the latest (now getting old) claims of PD member ripper006 (here is Ripper006_Trurip, registered early 2014, last seen... October 2014!!!), trurip wants (and claimed ready) to assume the role of the "best" collection out there.
He even went as far as to say that latest trurip are by far the most complete, because they even INCLUDE redump or TOSEC rips, when a real trurip of a piece of software doesn't exist yet.
(btw I don't have redump at all, I wonder if I need to give a new hard look at that collection too)


After that, periodically ripper started releasing some trurip collections and even some metadata, that are supposedly making the ROMs "ready to run" for a specific front-end I don't recall right now.

Reality check?

1) Many trurip system collections didn't get the corresponding "ART" package (the metadata).
2) Many trurip systems seem to be way smaller than their TOSEC counterparts. (so where is the "we even include TOSEC if we haven't yet ripped a ROM"?)
3) Seems those "feeds" of collections stopped altogether, way before being complete. Many known and important systems are nowhere to be seen (unless you POINT me to where they have them).
4) A TOSEC ISO update came AFTER those, making thinks more complex than before (now WHO is the most current and best?)...

So, whoever can contribute to this thread and maybe clear a few things (the most "officially" the better)... be my guest.


To make things more practical, I will release a partial table of my collection, along with my comment on what to do with those (that really needs real answers from someone that can talk in the name of any of those two teams)...
See how many things I just "assume" because I don't have hard info. Any help on that, be my guest too.


BrandModelTOSECWANTSIZEHAVEtruripWANTSIZEHAVETo do?
3DO3DO Interactive MultiplayerYESNO150,2G5,39GYESNO347G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
AcornArchimedesYESYES2,6GCompleteYESYES3,9GCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
American Laser GamesCD-ROM SystemYESYES395,6MCompleteYESYES659MCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
AndamiroPump It Up CDNOYESYES7,7GCompleteWorldOK, get other trurip regions later (due to size).
AppleMacintoshYESYES12,5GCompleteYESYES24,6GCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
AtariJaguar CDYESYES3,5GCompleteYESYES5,8G0Get trurip. Trurip much larger, assume better.
BandaiPlaydiaYESYES21,7GCompleteYESYES18,3GCompleteChoose best. TOSEC larger, assume better.
BandaiPippinYESYES2,2GCompleteYESYES13,8GCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
CapcomCP System IIIYESYES267,3MCompleteYESYES584MCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
CommodoreAmigaYESYES255,9GCompleteNOOK
CommodoreCD32YESYES53,8GCompleteNOOK
CommodoreCDTVYESYES24,6GCompleteYESYES4.8GCompleteChoose best. TOSEC much larger, assume better.
Commodore64NoYESYES627MCompleteOK
FujitsuFM TownsYESYES1GCompleteYESNO28,8G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
IBMPC CompatiblesYESYES236,9GCompleteNOOK
Incredible TechnologiesEagleYESYES389,7MCompleteYESYES2,9G0Get trurip. Trurip much larger, assume better.
Incredible TechnologiesPCNOYESYES3G0Get trurip.
KonamiBenami System 573 DigitalYESYES811,7MCompleteNOOK
KonamiBenami System 573 AnalogYESYES42,1MCompleteNOOK
KonamiSystem 573YESYES29,8MCompleteYESNO17,4G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
KonamiBenami FireBeatNOYESYES927M0Get trurip (later, due to size).
KonamiBenami TwinkleNOYESYES1,4G0Get trurip.
KonamiM2NOYESYES512MCompleteOK
LinuxLinux OSNOYESYES591MCompleteOK
MattelHyperScanYESYES387,7MCompleteYESYES970M0Get trurip. Trurip much larger, assume better.
MemorexVideo Information SystemYESYES8,6GCompleteYESNO17,7G0Get trurip. Trurip much larger, assume better.
MSXMSX CDNOYESYES481MCompleteOK
Namco, Sega, NintendoTriforceNOYESNO21,1G0Get trurip (later, due to size).
NECPC-FXYESYES30GCompleteYESNO47,4G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
NECPC-FXGAYESYES485,5MCompleteYESYES1,3GCompleteChoose best. Trurip much larger, assume better.
NECPC-Engine CDYESYES34,5KCompleteYESNO197,7G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
NECTurboGrafx-CDYESYES0CompleteYESNO17,6G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
NECPC-88NOYESYES654MCompleteOK
NECPC-98NOYESYES5,6GCompleteOK
NintendoGameCubeYESNO50,9G0YESNO2,3T0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
PalmPalm OSNOYESYES2,9MCompleteOK
PhilipsCD-iYESNO168,2G575MYESYES186M0Get TOSEC (later, due to size). TOSEC much larger, assume better.
SegaDreamcastYESNO629,6G263MNOGet TOSEC (later, due to size).
SegaMega-CD & Sega CDYESNO272,4G2,13GYESNo114,3G0Get TOSEC (later, due to size). TOSEC much larger, assume better.
SegaSaturnYESNO179,9G163MNOGet TOSEC (later, due to size).
Sega32XYESYES15,4G0YESYES5GCompleteEuropeGet TOSEC. TOSEC much larger, assume better.
SegaNAOMIYESYES3GCompleteYESNO50G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
SegaWonderMegaYESYES1,9GCompleteNOOK
SegaNAOMI 2YESYES249,7MCompleteYESNO14,4G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
SegaChihiroNOYESNO8,9G0Get trurip.
SegaLindberghNOYESNO29,6G0Get trurip (later, due to size).
SegaRingWideNOYESNO1,8G0Get trurip.
SinclairZX Spectrum CDNOYESYES764MCompleteOK
SNKNeo-Geo CDYESYES115,5G51,9GYESYES119,7GCompleteWorldGet other trurip regions later (due to size), or complete TOSEC. Which is better?
SNKHyper Neo-Geo 64YESYES596,6MCompleteNOOK
SonyPlayStationYESYES3,2GCompleteNOOK
SonyPlayStation 2YESYES48,2MCompleteNOOK
TomyKISS-SiteYESYES1,7GCompleteYESYES1,9G0Get trurip. Trurip larger, assume better.
VM LabsNuonYESYES3,5GCompleteYESNO4G0Get trurip. Trurip larger, assume better.
VTechV.Flash Home Entertainment SystemYESYES1,9GCompleteYESNO4,2G0Get trurip (later, due to size). Trurip much larger, assume better.
ZAPiT GamesGame Wave Family Entertainment SystemYESNO45,2G0NOGet TOSEC (later, dure to size).
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NLS

Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017 - 12:19:14 »
i dont understand some points off your list.
TOSEC / trurip = Set in this collection?
Then i dont know, why Commodore Amiga is excluded? Why is Benami excluded? Dreamcast, Saturn, IBM? ......and on...

by the way:
i am completing my TOSEC ISO - Sets.... it seems to me the right one, and ooh,
Trurip != Tosec != ReDump
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017 - 12:21:58 by D34con »
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017 - 09:09:16 »
I just list what I have downloaded (completed or not).


When a machine is not listed in TOSEC column, means it is not available in TOSEC ISO (at all - since I have the full official DATs).


When a machine is not listed in trurip column, means it is not available in PD ripper's release. NOT that trurip doesn't have those machines. The problem with trurip, is that I have yet to find a fresh OFFICIAL dat. There is a superdat in this forum, but looks quite messy (machines repeated, empty folders etc.), so I doubt it is any kind of official.
The problem with trurip is that it keeps a very "underground" profile, so I cannot support it completely. Looks like they "come and go" which is funny because such projects were born EXACTLY because TOSEC (esp. ISO and PIX) "come and go" and could not be "trusted".


I wanted to embrace trurip as they claimed to become the "mother of all rips". A promise not delivered yet.
Unless someone provides proof otherwise.


My personal problem is to get the best of any machine (will allow duplicates for machines I want covered from all sides - like all Commodore).


I am not sure what you mean by saying that the three most known rip collections are not the same. Yes they are not but they suppose to have the same mission statement: Use the best ripping method to keep alive every possible piece of software. No?
(unlike for example goodroms that wants to retain only the "best" versions)

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Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017 - 15:50:59 »
Some of your TruRip's missing, i got. Because there are no changes to many systems (except name-change, once again), i suggest to have those sets full at all, too.

Quote
I wanted to embrace trurip as they claimed to become the "mother of all rips". A promise not delivered yet.

like good, bad politics: promising, breaking, no deliverance.

Quote
I am not sure what you mean by saying that the three most known rip collections are not the same.

you cant fully or even half rebuild any set from any other. If you are eager to have a "full-set", you should'nt hesitate to leech them all. Just to think, you got TruRip, you also can rebuild tosec from TR, you're not right, if so.
The way is: which path remains the lesser headache.
1. TOSEC - seems finished in some parts.
2. ReDump - Most red profiles in my CMPro; nevertheless the most datted discs of all sets. So this is the most available discs from all three systems.
3. TruRip - seems to be not maintained or there are some inner discussions about which and what. Looks dead to me. They needed more than 8-9 months to make a new trurip-release public which isn't done by less than 70%. If i have a set ready to fire, i will fire my guns...

This is my critics about. Dont Talk, DO! But sometimes going nasty to tell the people, "hey, be lucky to get those files for free, so wait until WE say we release them." This is not my kind of socializm.
Think about i make you a great present, but you dont get it from me.
Well. I am on the TOSEC train, lets see, if this decade is a lucky one for TR.
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017 - 22:16:37 »
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Some of your TruRip's missing, i got. Because there are no changes to many systems (except name-change, once again), i suggest to have those sets full at all, too.


Which you mean?

Quote
you cant fully or even half rebuild any set from any other. If you are eager to have a "full-set", you should'nt hesitate to leech them all. Just to think, you got TruRip, you also can rebuild tosec from TR, you're not right, if so.


I know that. Different ripping methods, different files.
That said, SOME trurip should be rebuildable from TOSEC, if the claim by ripper006 is true and they use TOSEC for roms they haven't ripped themselves yet.

I can't have them all. No space for that. I can't even have a single one complete (TOSEC ISO is 2.2TB by itself for example).
So I choose specific systems, as seen in the comments of my list above.


Quote
The way is: which path remains the lesser headache.
1. TOSEC - seems finished in some parts.
2. ReDump - Most red profiles in my CMPro; nevertheless the most datted discs of all sets. So this is the most available discs from all three systems.
3. TruRip - seems to be not maintained or there are some inner discussions about which and what. Looks dead to me. They needed more than 8-9 months to make a new trurip-release public which isn't done by less than 70%. If i have a set ready to fire, i will fire my guns...


Actually before latest TOSEC release, TOSEC looked more dead than trurip. Trurip did many torrent releases (through ripper006) in Q2 2007.

Quote
This is my critics about. Dont Talk, DO! But sometimes going nasty to tell the people, "hey, be lucky to get those files for free, so wait until WE say we release them." This is not my kind of socializm.
Think about i make you a great present, but you dont get it from me.
Well. I am on the TOSEC train, lets see, if this decade is a lucky one for TR.


I more or less agree.

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Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017 - 03:07:58 »
1. except Wondermega (which seems to be scattered in the mega-cd set) and ps2 (which is not part of TruRip....yet), so every other "no" on "trurip"

2. Many files can be rebuild, lets talk about 20-80%, depending on the sets, i guess, dreamcast is an example to have about 100% interchangeable through all 3 sets. This also happen to TOSEC to TruRip, TOSEC to ReDump, TruRip to ReDump. See Apple Mac: what's in ReDump, is in TruRip too. So talking about "stealing". Who steals from who, and what is "stealing" if these are shared for free. This is to much fun to me to be serious. Can't i name a game like i want to? Even if i cant get my hands on it? Isnt that disc non-existent, because someone talks about stealing? how about: ALL CREDITS GO TO... or THANKS FOR THE DISC TO: That said all... By the way, "WE" know who "THEY" are. So Maddog, Ripper006, Monocrom, Luck3DS and many others saves the history in gaming for all the common people who can't.
Talking about "Space". It really depends on compression on your store-disc. If you say, it's 2.2 TB, then it's ZIP. You know, there is better compression. I guess, i can put these 2.2 TB to less than 1.5 TB with much more reliable compressors

3. I mark sets not dead just for the intervalls of releases, i do mark these on the completishness of their contents. If we tuck this basics to life and death, TOSEC is the most healthy patient in town. TruRip, as i said before, claims 100% new Release which isnt at least 70% released, and what is, is sometimes faulty. I did myself CUE-editing for IBM and CD-i, and i am persecuted by another set which i dont remember right now. What i said before: Want to fire your release, fire it. I am waiting for Saturn over 4 months. 4 MONTHS! Sets which are READY!. 4 MONTHS.
So what is DEAD in your eyes? Complete Sets which are maintained slowly or incomplete which aren't released yet and probably never will.

If new kids demand good advice. TOSEC = Full (in my opinion), ReDump = More discs (as far i can say right now, but some red marks in Rommanagers), TruRip = Lesser files, some exclusive ones, not fully released, Sets not consistent!!
The other hand: Emulation... that's written on another paper...


Your list looks weird to me...
Philips   CD-i   YES   NO   168,2G   575M   YES   YES   186M   0      Get TOSEC (later, due to size). TOSEC much larger, assume better.

TruRip = 297 GB, 7z compressed. Lets say its 30% bigger uncompressed, then its about 400 GB CDi... why you write 186M.... i dont know.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017 - 03:11:03 by D34con »
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017 - 12:37:58 »
Don't get insulted, but it's a bit tough to follow your syntax. :D

Anyway from what I can read...

1. Good to know. Are they actually released somewhere?

2. We agree.
2b. As for space, 2.2TB indeed are zip. I use whatever compression method is already shared (PD or elsewhere). I do NOT plan to re-compress terabytes of data.

3. We also agree. Trurip claimed to be "more fresh" than TOSEC, yet they release things bit by bit, with huge breaks in between. TOSEC on the other hand is more straightforward, although they also seem to "die off" for some time before waking up again.
PIX is another beast altogether though. PIX could be 3-4 times the size it has now if TOSEC team decided to cooperate with other magazine scanners like DMC.

My (very loud) wish always is to COOPERATE. I find it stupid to not being able to agree and break in pieces such a big project for such a small community. They could agree on used formats and split the work. It will never happen, except if a Semi-God of Emulation is born and unites them by force or something.

I also tend to prefer TOSEC (as it is obvious).

Now about my list and the example you show.
You say trurip should be 297GB 7z and I believe you, but those 186Mb are just the Asian part, which is the only part ripper006 has released in PD in 2017. So the only part I have.
I already said, I use as source for trurip data only what is out in PD, since it was released by a trurip member in an organized form (then left the collection half for months) and I don't trust superdats as I cannot find a clean official one. Already explained these things.
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Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017 - 14:18:06 »
1. Trurip 2016. Just renamed in 2017, it was on PD. Sorry they erased them before new content is up. No matter what, i have em all from the past.
2b. Yes, it seems to be a big task, but i got a fast cpu sometimes back, which also works fast today. So loading is slower than compressing

sorry for the syntax. i think its sometimes hard to read, but i am sure, easy to understand, if you are on the same train.
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2017 - 14:15:49 »
What i really find impressive:
If i wanted to rebuild some to TOSEC, i did it 90/10 from TruRip!
Coincidence?
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017 - 07:57:10 »
Meaning that who "borrows" from whom?

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Offline cannonwillow

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017 - 07:50:25 »
kinda like borrowing underwear that were stolen from goodwill by your neighbor ;D

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017 - 08:26:12 »
thing is that I don't get who steals

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Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017 - 08:33:13 »
Also the naming was pretty similar to each other, at least back in 2015.
I started to rebuild TOSEC-Sets, for, whatever, who knows.
But this one's getting attention to me....
But this is not the question.

1. TOSEC and TruRip seems to be they cover each other 70-100%, depending on the sets, weird: The wav's and mp3's to rebuild TOSEC, come from TruRip, so what was before? Trurip or TOSEC. Answer yourself this question.
2. Both sets are in similar state. Lets say TOSEC knows about 1000 files, so do TruRip. Some more or less.
3. Only ReDump has more discs in PSX than the others in total, for example.

EDIT:
You know:
Most TOSEC-ISO folks changed to TruRip-Team. It's not stealing at all. How can we call this... Agent-Games?
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.

Offline NLS

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2018 - 11:44:01 »
I wake up this fossil thread (of mine), to ask...



(after seeing the latest No-Intro)

So, what is the current status of the major "collections"?
Please submit what you know, or even your thoughts.

- TOSEC. Seems it is more or less active. C64 gets much love (which is a good thing to me), but also Spectrum recently got way more active with Helga.
Even ISO had some changes in the last few months, although indeed ISO is not as active as it could (and is the other projects' core). Also PIX, although it started well (and even got an update in latest release), it is left behind (?) by attempts like DMC's, which is a pity.
I still think TOSEC is the one-stop-shop for non-(kind-of)-ISO images.

- ReDump. While ripping seems to be active (there are dats dated a few days ago in their site), I am not sure I find active communication of the team with the "emulation public". Last post in their blog is a year ago. Also I don't seem to find places where someone can download the updated collection's contents. ReDump is not getting too much love?

- TruRip. I would say it is more known for the "fight" against the other collections (and I am sure I will get flamed by writing this). While they play "the good boys" (and maybe they are, not going into that), they seem to be the most prone to intrigue. A few months ago the project seemed to "flourish" with new collections, supposedly even ready for emulators and front-ends (!), but then half-way... stopped and things keep "coming soon".

- No-Intro. I usually didn't include this in the "major" collections, since it has a way stricter mission statement, resulting in a smaller (but seemingly clean) collection, but it still is worth mentioning, especially since it seems to be active (which is the keyword of the post). I am not sure if any of the above (or more of the above) can cover this 100% as a super-set.

Ah and yes I still find stupid that some teams don't cooperate and all sides have excuses not too. Stupid is the word.

So, any comments or REAL news about the above, welcome.
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Offline D34con

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Re: trurip status? (but really a discussion trurip vs TOSEC - yes again)
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2018 - 11:56:52 »
comment...
trurip is dead. really.
take what you are looking for. Every man will be served. redump = iso. Tosec = carts. NoIntro = clean dumps
that said, case closed.
eof
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018 - 11:58:53 by D34con »
just not to be bad, i just proclaim to not to use search anymore for others than myself. Its easy. If you got almost fullsets, your missings are often posted together in one.