Author Topic: Coleco ADAM and MESS  (Read 1293 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Coleco ADAM and MESS
« on: May 07, 2018 - 09:36:05 »
I've been going through the latest MESSUI and there seems to be a lot of settings I couldn't access but always wished I could.

Point of the post is that I can set up the hard drive now but in order for it to work I need a CHD file which as far as I know CHDMAN doesn't just make blank chd's.

In any other emulator out there all of this would be so easy but if you know Curt and his way or the highway as far as these setups.

Am I missing something, does anyone even know?
I can't find anything useful online but I still haven't scoured Atari Age yet.

You would think that you could start off with a blank file then format it or better yet use 86 box or something to generate a formatted hd file but it's not a chd....

Solutions?  Suggestions?

Offline NLS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018 - 10:24:15 »
Not sure what you ask for.


Not sure what CHD is needed to run an ADAM. ADAM primary storage was tape. You want to load the BASIC interpreter?


Also not sure why you use MESSUI and not normal MAME.

---
NLS

Offline te_lanus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018 - 15:12:13 »
From doing a mame -listmedia there doesn't seems to be support for hdds on the Adam driver:
Code:
Only registered users can see contents. Please click here to Register or Login.
and scouring the source there is mention made to the hdd in the notes, but nowhere in the could I could see

Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018 - 19:12:31 »
ADAM can use hard drives now.
It is just a matter of why not and trying.
Trust me when I say that I know the ADAM inside and out.

That said...
I use MESS only because Colem is not up to speed and it was a DISASTER in my opinion to combine MESS and MAME just to make it slightly easier to maintain code.  The only thing you got was 20,000 things from A and 30,000 things from B just to have one giant mess of 50,000 A+B with one not having anything to do with the other.

One is Arcade Machines and the other is trying to emulate a coffee maker at the sub atomic level.

But as I was alluding to is that it can now support hard drives but there is no way to create one and need guidance.

Offline NLS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018 - 19:18:30 »
I didn't know ColEm is in such a bad shape, I am not very knowledgeable with Coleco (can do just basic things).
ColEm got an update yesterday didn't it?


I disagree that MAME + MESS was a bad idea (I was one of the people yelling it should happen) and not the place to discuss it (and too late after all :D ...).
Just one thing and I let this go: "The only thing you got was 20,000 things from A and 30,000 things from B just to have one giant mess of 50,000 A+B with one not having anything to do with the other" cannot be further from the truth. Maybe just for mechanical.


Back to the topic. Hope you make it work. If you do, let us know how. I just didn't understand what you wanted to do with your first post. Make an empty hardfile (in CHD format) and just use it to store data from within ADAM?



---
NLS

Offline te_lanus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018 - 21:05:11 »
[You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login
ADAM can use hard drives now.
It is just a matter of why not and trying.
Trust me when I say that I know the ADAM inside and out.

That said...
I use MESS only because Colem is not up to speed and it was a DISASTER in my opinion to combine MESS and MAME just to make it slightly easier to maintain code.  The only thing you got was 20,000 things from A and 30,000 things from B just to have one giant mess of 50,000 A+B with one not having anything to do with the other.

One is Arcade Machines and the other is trying to emulate a coffee maker at the sub atomic level.

But as I was alluding to is that it can now support hard drives but there is no way to create one and need guidance.

Doubt it very much, There is no mention of hdd's in the [You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login beyond the reference in the notes, no physical code, and the -listmedia output of the latest SVN build of MAME state that there is no support for it.

Also asked on the mess forum's shoutbox and arbee said the following:

Quote
R. Belmont:
 I don't think it has harddrives or CD-ROMs?


Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018 - 21:14:41 »
You can only mount CHD files but in reality who's going to have an ADAM chd file...

I might try to use the smallest mame CHD I can find and see if I can format it.

The whole project of was to just see how far the ADAM could be expanded and someone eventually made an IDE adapter for it.
According to the MESS settings you can even add a CD drive.

Coleco originally envisioned adding an expansion module to connect a CED player through a serial port and that was the original basis for Dragons Lair until it was made into a standalone DDP and disk game.
CED came out around the same time as Laser Disks.

As far as Colem goes.  The last version ADAM was still not implemented and he was working on the SGM emulation.
New games are available left and right online, free and we are not talking about stealing.  Free as in free.
My beef with Colem is that it is a proprietary library interface instead of just using directX, Vulcan or OpenGL which makes it harder to work on.

Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018 - 21:36:00 »
OK...Tried to mount a small CHD file but it just returns an error.

I am suspecting this is just future code and is either not implemented yet or I need a valid ADAM CHD.

If you go through the settings after ADAM is started it has a menu item to mount a hard drive.
I haven't tried but maybe it shows up after you install the IDE card in slot 3...working off memory here.

Offline te_lanus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2018 - 08:10:34 »
[You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login
OK...Tried to mount a small CHD file but it just returns an error.

I am suspecting this is just future code and is either not implemented yet or I need a valid ADAM CHD.

If you go through the settings after ADAM is started it has a menu item to mount a hard drive.
I haven't tried but maybe it shows up after you install the IDE card in slot 3...working off memory here.
What version are you using?

I've tried it with mame 0.197 and there is no evidence of the adam supporting a hdd:

[You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login


Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018 - 23:28:18 »
Why are you using the tab key and dip switches.

Just one other reason why MESS and MAME should not be combined.

Once ADAM is launched use the menu and use the slots.

Offline te_lanus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018 - 05:44:53 »
[You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login
Why are you using the tab key and dip switches.

Just one other reason why MESS and MAME should not be combined.
It's not dipswitched, it's the filemanager

Quote
Once ADAM is launched use the menu and use the slots.
The only available slots is For the FD, DDP and the printer

Also R.Belmond said in the shoutbox on MESS' forum that there was never support for the hdd

Maybe move the discussion here: [You are not allowed to view links] Register or Login then you can get answers from the devs

Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018 - 22:38:36 »
I am using MESSUI
I have the ability to add the powermate IDE interface into Slot 2, Adamlink takes up Slot 1 and the Memory expander takes up Slot 3.

I have another menu item that allows me to mount a chd hard drive in the media section after I plug in the IDE interface.

Sorry, don't know who this cat Belmond is that told you in shout box but if he knows then he knows...

If they don't want to implement the hard drive then so be it.
That seems to go against MESS's objective in the first place.

Kurt once told me that everything is to be emulated at the digital level which is moronic as an emulator standpoint but goes right in line with MESS.

In the end, I care less.
If I was really hot on it I would find the time to implement it on my own project.
I wanted to see one function for my own purposes.
Besides, the MESS devs have more important things to do than fix ADAM's problems like emulate a dishwasher or something mundane like that.

I mean really...How do you enjoy "I took a Lickin' From a Chicken" with no chicken?
They just add stuff at this point like whatever they can get their hands on from the 80's and 90's.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018 - 22:40:54 by StanA4957ZED »

Offline NLS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018 - 08:15:21 »
Not a very nice post.
It started like a question about if and how something works and then evolved to something not very polite.


1) If you use MESSUI, then it's the MESSUI guy you need to talk. What you see there, is his compile. Things that seem "permited" in MESSUI and do not work, may not even be implemented in MAME official. If you see a MESS issue in official MAME, then whine about MAME's limitations. Again for that they have their own forum.


2) I am curious if you have a link or anything online to give us on ADAM IDE interface (!?).


3) Belmond knows.


4) MAME project has very specific mission statement. Whoever doesn't like it, I guess looks around to find functional emulators per system (that don't primarily try to emulate the actual hardware, just how it works).


5) If you were really hot and indeed can code, then you could add it indeed in your own project OR help MAME team and add it there. This is how MAME works.


6) If you don't like the choice of what gets implemented with each MAME release (and there are no "MESS" devs at this time - the project is MAME whether you want to accept it or not), I guess you need to re-read #5 above: You can either make your own with your own priorities (and we may love it if you release it) OR you can help them and add stuff you find important. It is just a pull request.



---
NLS

Offline StanA4957ZED

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2018 - 00:32:58 »
Sorry if you see hostility because I don't.

If you use QMC2 with Mame or MESS it gives you the option of plugging in the IDE and other expansions and the same thing happens.

It is obvious that one hand is not talking to the other or just plain ignorance.

But how do you get hostility when I ask technical questions that should have an obvious answer.
What I gathered is that I could do something with an emulator that is completely possible and somehow I am hostile because you can't figure it out even after I told you.

What is also interesting is MameIU MessUI does nothing more than have a gui element that only uses the drivers built into mame.
Nothing more, nothing less.  There is nothing custom about it and it has been around since the beginning as well.



Offline NLS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Coleco ADAM and MESS
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018 - 20:11:00 »
Well that is how I read it. If I misread your post I am sorry.

About the subject. You should try pure MAME without a front-end (use own MAME GUI or command line) and this is the only way to be sure you don't see something enabled that shouldn't be enabled.

Quote
What is also interesting is MameIU MessUI does nothing more than have a gui element that only uses the drivers built into mame.
Nothing more, nothing less.  There is nothing custom about it and it has been around since the beginning as well.

Not entirely true.

- MAMEUI/MESSUI are not technically since the beginning. Since I maintain MAMEdev.org history page, I think I know. 0.26.1, first release of MAME32.

- MAMEUI/MESSUI uses MAME drivers, but many times not the exact monthly official release build, sometimes earlier or later (MAME team has made a post specifically for this in the past) and that is why nobody in MAME team accepts bug requests coming from users running MAMEUI/MESSUI.

- Adding a custom GUI element, exactly proves that it is possible it does NOT match perfectly the underlying drivers.

---
NLS